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January 26, 1997

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In connection with: "5 Wise - 5 Foolish"

Q: >Sorry.. >The oil is not the Holy Spirit Here..5 wise and 5 foolish >Read futher... >Tell me why you think it is..? A: But you have an Anointing from the Holy One and you know all things 1Jn2:20 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you....... 1Jn2:27 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth...Jn16:13, 14:16 Throughout Scripture, what is used for "anointing" ...? .....oil. Jesus taught, "you are the light of the world" ..."nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand"Mt 5:14-15 (oil lamp...where the oil is "in" the container and wicks up to the flame) "...be filled (continually filled to overflowing) with the Spirit." Eph5:18 like the water..."the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." Jn4:14
Q: >Your Tribulation commentary was truly beautiful! Thanks so much! I >forwarded it to my pastor. This will help me out a lot in just trying >to explain to other believers why I believe in pre-trib. Thought I'd >send you an encouraging note because I'm sure you'll get many "other" >responses. A: Thanks for your note. Yes there are "other" responses.--g--
Q: >I really like the way Chuck Missler explains it, "If you don't >understand the pre-trib rapture, don't worry, we'll explain it on the >way up." >Unfortunately, I don't think we will be explaining it to all that >many!! A: Thanks for your note. Truly, sadly, it won't be all that many..."few there be that find it" (the narrow path) Also...if we are "on the way up" ...no explanation will be necessary, eh.
Q: >You are off in your belief about the five foolish virgins. They were saved. If>I believe as you, then I can buy salvation. >OBSERVE: Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not>enough for us and you: ****but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for>yourselves.**** A: Do you not remember how I introduced the PARABLE by saying that we cannot pick little "nits" out of the parable to teach doctrine? What you have just written with these lines is a prime example "why" I made that statement. Jesus' parable was about lamps, oil and the preparedness of the "virgins." The "going to buy more oil" was part of the narrative of the story. The point was, the foolish virgins didn't have oil. So, while they were out trying to figure out how to get some, the Bridgroom came...and then it was too late. Period. Q: >No one buys salvation at any price in any dispensation. Some get it as a free >gifts. Some mix faith and works and grace to obtain. Some mix faith, works, >grace, and martys death. However, no one buys their way to heaven. Simon..... A: Exactly! And I'm glad to see that you include "martyrs death" in this list. I get things from people wanting me to help them venerate Catholic martyrs, etc.etc. But it is of no benefit, when they are not In Christ. Even something as venerated as Fox's "Book of Martyrs" I notice after about the first 200 years from Christ, martyrdom is not as much because they were "In Christ," but because they were "Protestants" etc.etc. Q: got >mixed up on buying something from God. A: Did you not read the rest of the commentary? What did it say about these who are out buying and stockpiling, etc.etc? They are not looking to Christ. Q: >The Virgins have little if anything to do with salvation in any dispensation. >All 10 are saved. THey are at the wedding ceremony. A: Sorry. Read it again. The 5 foolish are "outside" after the door is shut. And the Master says, "I don't know you." That doesn't sound very "saved" to me. ...or that they are "at the wedding" Q: The wedding takes place in >heaven, not on earth. A: I don't understand your "point" here. Of course the wedding takes place in heaven. But, what does this have to do with anything from the commentary, to which you seem to be responding?
Q: However, out of interest, how can the >wise virgins represent abiding Christians. Since the church is the bride they >cannot also be the bridesmaids. As the Hebrew bridegroom returns *with* his >bride to the wedding feasts I believ when the cry the bridgegroom comes is heard >I shall already have been raptured and will be coming with Him. Also the 5>foolish virgins ran out of oil, it was not that they had no oil to begin with.>I believe the five wise virgins are the remant in Israel who will greet Messiah>when He returns with the church to set up His kingdom. I don't really know how>"all Israel shall be saved in a day" fits in with that. A: Parables were used by Jesus to teach "principles." If you recall, it says He spoke in parables so that "seeing, they might not see, and hearing, they might not hear....lest they be converted." Also, as I started out the commentary, parables cannot be used to teach detailed doctrine, by picking out all the little "nits" from the story line. Having said this, it would be interesting to consider the "Israel connection" that you point out...as it relates to the "bride" for whom the Bridgroom is coming. However, let us remember that Jesus was a "Jew" ...*to* the Jews. As He spoke parables (object lessons), He used things His audience was familiar with...telling "stories"...to illustrate greater spiritual concepts. If we go into this kind of detail, I think we can see that it is impossible for it to be His second coming *to* Israel, because the doors were then shut...to the "wedding." The wedding of the Bride and Bridgroom. So, this is then..."spills over into"... during the Tribulation. In terms of the 5 "running out of oil." Well...there is no problem with this at all. This could easily fit along with the parable of the seed and the soils. Many of those seeds sprouted up...in other words, there was "life" there...however briefly...and then they fell away. This could tend to put a bit of a damper on the "once saved always saved" notion of things, eh. Jesus often spoke of a person "wanting" to follow Him...but not counting the cost. God's salvation is secure and it is eternal. But a person can choose to turn away from God (not the little slip-ups for which advocacy is called upon1Jn2:1) and find he is then permanently lost. Heb 6:4-6, 10:26-31, 1Cor10:12. Oh...also...you emphasise the word "with" ...Bridegroom "returns WITH His bride" ...Well, actually, isn't the scenario of the 10 virgins the situation where the groom is coming to "fetch" his bride, to whom he was betrothed? ...in order to now be "officially" married? ...again, the Rapture.
Q: >How do you explain that none of the early church Fathers believed or even >heard of the pre-tribulation rapture before about 1830? I believe it is wise>to be at least a little skeptical of brand new doctrines. A: Who are the "Church Fathers?" What history and scholarship call "church fathers," were not Christians. The true Believers were in the underground church. Wandering in "sheepskins and goatskins" (figuratively), being tortured and martyred for their faith, and being harrased from city to city, and house to house...*BY* the "fathers." No...of course, the church "fathers" wouldn't have believed it...just like the apostasy today does not. And...it is not a "new" doctrine. It's been in the Scriptures all the time...since Jesus, Peter, Paul taught it...and it's written in the Scriptures. That's not "new." Q: Why is the >tribulation cut short for the sake of the elect? MT.24:22, Are not the elect >Christians? A: Now...during the age of "Grace" they are called "Christians." They began to be called "Christians" in Antioch. Acts 11:26 In the OT Israel was called the "elect" See: Isa45:4,65:9,Mt 24:31. Perhaps this helps explain Mt24:31, which non-pre-tribers ascribe to the Church? The "elect" in the OT were Israel. Since Christ, the "elect" are Christians, as Israel was cut off temporarily that Gentiles might be grafted in. (Rom11) By context...it would seem that the "elect" are those who are In Christ (Col3:12, 1Pet1:2, etc) In the OT, Israel offered sacrifices "prophetically" looking to the cross. The Church, made up of Jews & Gentiles, looks to the cross of Christ "historically." And, when the Church is taken out at the Rapture, God's "attention" will once again be on His "elect" ...Israel...who will be grafted back in again (Rom11:23-26) The Tribulation will be cut short for the sake of Israel...who, as a nation, will go through the midst of the Tribulation, and will be its focal point.
Q: Okay... Correct..in these issues. (to previous questions he asked) But in the story of the 5 Wise, and 5 Foolish.. There is something different. with this oil. Think for a moment... Let me know if you can see it...I once thought like you on this story A: Sorry! I'm not very good at "guessing games." (This question did not receive a personal reply)
Q. Why do people need to quote from some early Church Father like they are infallible? Detractors of the Pre-trib view often want to say or imply that our view cannot be found in the pages of the Bible and must have come from a deviant source. The New Testament not only teaches pretribulationism, but holds it forth as our "Blessed Hope" - a central focus of faith. And the 1830 argument does not hold either... besides being in Scripture, there was found an ancient pre-trib rapture statement way before 1830. "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins." -- Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627) This is an excerpt from a sermon entitled "On the Last Times, the antichrist, and the End of the World." written by Ephraem of Nisibis (306-73), considered to be the greatest figure in the history of the Syrian church. A. Thanks for these comments. In addition, sort of unrelated, but relevant nontheless...I was remembering a statement from a publication that both you and I subscribe to. An argument of "logic" regarding pre vs. post-tribulation Rapture. And is related to the current topic. Those who look to pre-wrath, post-trib, etc. are busily preparing for survival ON EARTH. One of the common threads amongst *ALL* of them seems to be a fascination for "signs" of the antichrist. They spend all their time looking for and studying the apostasy. Trying to figure out "who" the antichrist may be, or from "what" organization/s he may appear. I see very little of these people "lifting up their heads" and looking for the "appearing" of our Savior. Very few actually speak of Jesus Christ, Salvation, of fellowship with God. They are so busy looking at earthly things, and for the antichrist. Jesus says, "Follow Me." Do we look for antichrist (to Satan)? or do we "lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily ensnares us, ...[running] with endurance the race that is set before us... LOOKING UNTO JESUS.... the author and finisher of our faith." (~Heb12:1-2) Amen!

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