In connection with: "5 Wise - 5 Foolish"


Q:
>Sorry..
>The oil is not the Holy Spirit Here..5 wise and 5 foolish
>Read futher...
>Tell me why you think it is..?

A: 
But you have an Anointing from the Holy One and you know all things
1Jn2:20

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and
you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing
teaches you....... 1Jn2:27

However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into
all truth...Jn16:13, 14:16

Throughout Scripture, what is used for "anointing" ...?  .....oil.

Jesus taught, "you are the light of the world" ..."nor do they light a
lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand"Mt 5:14-15  (oil
lamp...where the oil is "in" the container and wicks up to the flame)

"...be filled (continually filled to overflowing) with the Spirit."
Eph5:18 like the water..."the water that I shall give him will become
in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." Jn4:14


Q:
>Your Tribulation commentary was truly beautiful!  Thanks so
much!  I >forwarded it to my pastor.  This will help me out a lot in
just trying >to explain to other believers why I believe in pre-trib.  
Thought I'd >send you an encouraging note because I'm sure you'll get 
many "other" >responses.

A:
Thanks for your note. Yes there are "other" responses.--g--


Q:
>I really like the way Chuck Missler explains it,  "If you don't
>understand the pre-trib rapture,  don't worry, we'll explain it on the
>way up."
>Unfortunately,  I don't think we will be explaining it to all that
>many!!

A:
Thanks for your note. Truly, sadly, it won't be all that many..."few
there be that find it" (the narrow path)

Also...if we are "on the way up" ...no explanation will be 
necessary, eh.


Q:
>You are off in your belief about the five foolish virgins.  They were
saved.  If>I believe as you, then I can buy salvation.  >OBSERVE:  Mat
25:9  But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not>enough
for us and you: ****but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy
for>yourselves.****

A:
Do you not remember how I introduced the PARABLE by saying that we
cannot pick little "nits" out of the parable to teach doctrine? What
you have just written with these lines is a prime example "why" I made
that statement. Jesus' parable was about lamps, oil and the 
preparedness of the "virgins." The "going to buy more oil" was part of 
the narrative of the story. The point was, the foolish virgins didn't 
have oil. So, while they were out trying to figure out how to get some, 
the Bridgroom came...and then it was too late. Period.


Q:
>No one buys salvation at any price in any dispensation.  Some get it
as a free >gifts.  Some mix faith and works and grace to obtain.  Some 
mix faith, works, >grace, and martys death.  However, no one buys their 
way to heaven.  Simon.....

A:
Exactly! 

And I'm glad to see that you include "martyrs death" in this list. I
get things from people wanting me to help them venerate Catholic
martyrs, etc.etc. But it is of no benefit, when they are not In Christ.
Even something as venerated as Fox's "Book of Martyrs" I notice after
about the first 200 years from Christ, martyrdom is not as much because
they were "In Christ," but because they were "Protestants" etc.etc.


Q:
got
>mixed up on buying something from God.

A:
Did you not read the rest of the commentary?  What did it say about
these who are out buying and stockpiling, etc.etc?  They are not
looking to Christ.


Q:
>The Virgins have little if anything to do with salvation in any
dispensation. >All 10 are saved.  THey are at the wedding ceremony.

A:
Sorry. Read it again. The 5 foolish are "outside" after the door is
shut. And the Master says, "I don't know you." That doesn't sound very
"saved" to me. ...or that they are "at the wedding"


Q:
The wedding takes place in
>heaven, not on earth.

A:
I don't understand your "point" here. Of course the wedding takes place
in heaven. But, what does this have to do with anything from the
commentary, to which you seem to be responding?


Q:
However, out of interest, how can the >wise virgins represent abiding
Christians.  Since the church is the bride they >cannot also be the
bridesmaids.  As the Hebrew bridegroom returns *with* his >bride to the
wedding feasts I believ when the cry the bridgegroom comes is heard >I
shall already have been raptured and will be coming with Him.  Also the
5>foolish virgins ran out of oil, it was not that they had no oil to
begin with.>I believe the five wise virgins are the remant in Israel
who will greet Messiah>when He returns with the church to set up His
kingdom.  I don't really know how>"all Israel shall be saved in a day"
fits in with that.

A:
Parables were used by Jesus to teach "principles." If you recall, it
says He spoke in parables so that "seeing, they might not see, and
hearing, they might not hear....lest they be converted." Also, as I
started out the commentary,  parables cannot be used to teach detailed
doctrine, by picking out all the little "nits" from the story line.

Having said this, it would be interesting to consider the "Israel
connection" that you point out...as it relates to the "bride" for whom
the Bridgroom is coming. However, let us remember that Jesus was a 
"Jew" ...*to* the Jews. As He spoke parables (object lessons), He used 
things His audience was familiar with...telling "stories"...to 
illustrate greater spiritual concepts.

If we go into this kind of detail, I think we can see that it is
impossible for it to be His second coming *to* Israel, because the
doors were then shut...to the "wedding." The wedding of the Bride and
Bridgroom. So, this is then..."spills over into"... during the
Tribulation.

In terms of the 5 "running out of oil." Well...there is no problem with
this at all. This could easily fit along with the parable of the seed
and the soils. Many of those seeds sprouted up...in other words, there
was "life" there...however briefly...and then they fell away. This
could tend to put a bit of a damper on the "once saved always saved"
notion of things, eh. Jesus often spoke of a person "wanting" to follow
Him...but not counting the cost.

God's salvation is secure and it is eternal. But a person can choose to
turn away from God (not the little slip-ups for which advocacy is
called upon1Jn2:1) and find he is then permanently lost. Heb 6:4-6,
10:26-31, 1Cor10:12.

Oh...also...you emphasise the word "with" ...Bridegroom "returns WITH
His bride"  ...Well, actually, isn't the scenario of the 10 virgins the
situation where the groom is coming to "fetch" his bride, to whom he 
was betrothed? ...in order to now be "officially" married?   ...again, 
the Rapture.


Q:
>How do you explain that none of the early church Fathers believed or
even >heard of the pre-tribulation rapture before about 1830? I believe
it is wise>to be at least a little skeptical of brand new doctrines.

A:
Who are the "Church Fathers?" What history and scholarship call "church
fathers," were not Christians. The true Believers were in the
underground church. Wandering in "sheepskins and goatskins"
(figuratively), being tortured and martyred for their faith, and being
harrased from city to city, and house to house...*BY* the "fathers."
No...of course, the church "fathers" wouldn't have believed it...just 
like the apostasy today does not.

And...it is not a "new" doctrine. It's been in the Scriptures all the
time...since Jesus, Peter, Paul taught it...and it's written in the
Scriptures. That's not "new."


Q:
 Why is the >tribulation cut short for the sake of the elect? MT.24:22,
 Are not the elect >Christians?

A:
Now...during the age of "Grace" they are called "Christians." They
began to be called "Christians" in Antioch. Acts 11:26

In the OT Israel was called the "elect" See:  Isa45:4,65:9,Mt 24:31.
Perhaps this helps explain Mt24:31, which non-pre-tribers ascribe to
the Church?

The "elect" in the OT were Israel. Since Christ, the "elect" are
Christians, as Israel was cut off temporarily that Gentiles might be
grafted in. (Rom11) By context...it would seem that the "elect" are 
those who are In Christ (Col3:12, 1Pet1:2, etc) In the OT, Israel 
offered sacrifices "prophetically" looking to the cross. The Church, 
made up of Jews & Gentiles, looks to the cross of Christ 
"historically." And, when the Church is taken out at the Rapture, God's 
"attention" will once again be on His "elect" ...Israel...who will be 
grafted back in again (Rom11:23-26)

The Tribulation will be cut short for the sake of Israel...who, as a
nation, will go through the midst of the Tribulation, and will be its
focal point.


Q:
Okay... Correct..in these issues. (to previous questions he asked)

But in the story of the 5 Wise, and 5 Foolish..
There is something different. with this oil.

Think for a moment...

Let me know if you can see it...I once thought like you on this story

A:
Sorry! I'm not very good at "guessing games."

(This question did not receive a personal reply)


Q.  Why do people need to quote from some early Church Father like they 
are infallible?  Detractors of the Pre-trib view often want to say or
imply that our view cannot be found in the pages of the Bible and must
have come from a deviant source.

The New Testament not only teaches pretribulationism, but holds it
forth as our "Blessed Hope" - a central focus of faith.

And the 1830 argument does not hold either... besides being in
Scripture, there was found an ancient pre-trib rapture statement way
before 1830.

"All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the
tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that 
they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world 
because of our sins."

  -- Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627)

This is an excerpt from a sermon entitled "On the Last Times, the
antichrist, and the End of the World." written by Ephraem of Nisibis
(306-73), considered to be the greatest figure in the history of the
Syrian church.

A.  Thanks for these comments. In addition, sort of unrelated, but 
relevant nontheless...I was remembering a statement from a publication
that both you and I subscribe to. An argument of "logic" regarding pre
vs. post-tribulation Rapture. And is related to the current topic.

Those who look to pre-wrath, post-trib, etc. are busily preparing for 
survival ON EARTH. One of the common threads amongst *ALL* of them 
seems to be a fascination for "signs" of the antichrist. They spend all 
their time looking for and studying the apostasy. Trying to figure out 
"who" the antichrist may be, or from "what" organization/s he may 
appear.

I see very little of these people "lifting up their heads" and looking
for the "appearing" of our Savior. Very few actually speak of Jesus
Christ, Salvation, of fellowship with God. They are so busy looking at
earthly things, and for the antichrist.

Jesus says, "Follow Me."

Do we look for antichrist (to Satan)?

or do we "lay aside every weight and the sin which so easily ensnares
us, ...[running] with endurance the race that is set before us...

LOOKING UNTO JESUS.... the author and finisher of our faith." (~Heb12:1-2)

Amen!