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April 2, 2000

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Q/A Topics:
God "told us"...

How do you feel about [name of website] sections on [the pastor] regarding God having "told" him and his wife certain things... Since they are a link on your site, I was wondering if you agree with this. The site, otherwise seems pretty good so far, but these words bothered me. Please comment.

One of the scourges of the modern charismatic movement, where they continually speak of "God told me" and they have "prophetic utterances", is the fact that that falseness makes Believers afraid of that which is genuine. Their "spirit-fillings" has made Believers often lean backwards the other way, so as not to be "charismatic"; and as such, often act as though the Holy Spirit doesn't exist and work in the Believer's life. However, it is impossible to be a Christian and not have the Holy Spirit. (Rom8:9)

The problem and misunderstanding True Believers have had is in attributing the label "Christian" to charismania. Thus, they speak of the "OVER-EMPHASIS" of their charismatic "brethren" in matters of the "spirit". If they would realize that charismania is NOT "Christian", I believe all the confusion would go away. It is not an "OVER-emphasis". It is a DIFFERENT spirit. Paul speaks of "doctrines of demons." (1Tm4:1) The things they do are of occult origins... from "idolatry". (1Cor12:2) But these things they do have been cleverly masked and made to "look like" something "Christian" by its -pretend- "ministers/apostles of righteousness". (2Cor11:13-15) They are -NOT- "brethren". Period.

But... the -HOLY- Spirit exists, has sealed each Believer (Eph1:13) and indwells (Rom8:9) just as Jesus promised He (not "it") would come.(Jn16)

Thus, please notice from Acts, "as they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, So, then, separate Baranabas and Saul to Me for the work to which I have called them.." (Acts13:2) How did these Believers know the Holy Spirit said this? Did they have a vision or prophetic utterance? Did they speak in tongues and become slain? It doesn't say that. This is something which happens in the -quiet- of the "still small voice". (1Kg19:12) The residing Holy Spirit "bears witness with our spirit..." (Rom8:16)

How does any Believer know the Lord's will? The Lord "tells them". It does not come through the "fire/earthquake/wind" of the happy songs, jumping up and down, shouting out "praise the Lord", speaking in tongues, etc... but in the "still small voice" of that "room, shutting your door, pray to your Father -in-secret-..." (Mt6:6) That time in secret also includes hearing God through His Word, the Scriptures.


Business partners with unsaved?

I have some friends who are Buddhist and muslim, and we have decided we should develop a business...which is on going, then it occured to me - Is it right to do business together with this people of a different beliefs ?. I would appreciate an urget advice. thanks

Well...I certainly would 'think twice' before I jumped into such a thing. When 2cor6:14 speaks of not being "unequally yoked" with unbelievers, the primary application there, of course, is Christian fellowship and worship.

However, we are in the world. We hold the world's jobs to earn the world's money, to buy the world's food, and live in houses the world's system makes possible. After all, Paul also says that we don't necessarily "go out of the world". (1Cor5:9-11) We keep our money in the world's banks, and take out the world's loans to help us buy houses and other things.

In going into a business venture you must know those with whom you are binding yourself. Depending on the legal arrangments, it might not be any different than binding one's self to a mortgage. "For the earth is the Lord's and the fullness of it..." (1Cor10:25-27) After all, Believers "get married" all the time. The marriage license is a 'legal' arrangement under the world's system. A Believer marries another Believer...but the license is of the world's system.

If this arrangement involves Buddhist/Muslim issues, and if you perceive your future partners viewing it as a "religious" bond, then you definitely would NOT want to participate. "For the earth is the Lord's and the fullness of it..." (1Cor10:28)


OSAS vs Eternal Security (from April article)

Thank you for your reply...I have already checked out the doctrine OSAS in depth in Scripture, but I was of the opinion OSAS was synonymous with Eternal Security. But you say: "for those of you who still confuse "Eternal Security" with "OSAS" as though they were the same thing will likely be riled." I am one of those who doesn't know the difference. So my question is: What is the difference?

Eternal Security is something the Believer possesses because of what God does. "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?..." (Rom8:35-39) No-body or no-thing can separate us from Christ, because our salvation is something Christ did when He shed His blood (1Pt1:19) and "finished" (Jn19:30) it "once for all" (Rom6:10, Heb7:27,9:12,etc) and gave it to us as a "gift" (Eph2:8). It is not a "work" that we can do. (Eph2:9,Ti3:5) And while we don't yet fully possess salvation (Phil3:12-13) as we wait for the "adoption the redemption of the body" (Rom8:23) we have the "hope" (Rom8:24-25) because the Holy Spirit has "sealed" us as the "earnest" of our inheritance. (Eph1:13-14) All these things are things which -GOD- does. These things are "sure and steadfast". (Heb6:19)

But God does not keep us against our will. Jesus invites "come to Me" (Mt11:28-30). But it is obvious that most of His hearers did not come to Him, because they shouted "Crucify Him!!" Obviously, He did not force Himself upon people. In the same way, the writer of Hebrews speaks of "let us draw near...hold fast.." (Heb10:22-23) and on the flip side of that argument, "sinning wilfully..." and "if he draws back My soul is not pleased..." and again about "..withdrawal to destruction.." (vs38-39) This is the person who begins to be a 'farmer' but when he starts plowing, he "..looks back" (Lk9:62) He thinks following Christ is a good idea, but does not "count the cost" (Lk14:28) and does not continue.

All a Believer has to do is continue and "live by faith". (Hab2:4, Rom1:17) When he does that, God's Eternal Security sustains him. But if he decides to 'jump ship', he's overboard, and there is no further rescue/salvation. (Heb6:6)

If you've read the piece "Twelve Kinds of People", this is not the one who disobeys and confesses. (1Jn1:9,2:1-2) This is not even the one like the Corinthians...who were Believers...but living "carnal" lives. The ones who make it "yet so as by fire" (1Cor3:15) or even who lived a sinful life and was taken in disciplinary physical death but the spirit was saved (1Cor5:5,11:30)... the "sin unto death" (1Jn5:16) But this person has seen what salvation is all about. He has been with Christ. And has had time to evaluate and decides that he "has no pleasure" in the things of his Creator. (Ec12:1)

This latter case does not change what 'could/would have been' available to him, had he not jumped ship. Had he stayed on board, he would have had Eternally Secure salvation. But he makes a 'conscious choice' to "withdraw" from God. Nobody yanks/pushes him off the ship. Salvation is not "lost". He 'voluntarily' -JUMPS-.

Can we change our mind and "jump ship" as you call it in heaven....and if not.....how come?

First of all, let us notice that Lucifer 'jumped ship'. [Ed: please don't form your conclusion with that one sentence; there's more] Where was he? He was the "anointed cherub that covers". (Ez28:14) We have spoken of this several years ago in the article "Treason" (May,95) Israel had an earthly picture/representation of that in the cherubim whose wings spread out and covered the Mercy Seat. The Mercy Seat, being on the Ark of the Cevenant which was situated in the Holy of Holies. (Ex25:20) What did the Mercy Seat represent? God's 'presence' among His people. The high priest once each year would take blood and sprinkle on the Mercy Seat to atone for sin. (Lev16:14-16) Before his rebellion, Lucifer was the 'real thing' in Heaven; about as close to God as any creature could be.

But he became proud (Ez28:17) and said, "I will be like the Most High". (Is14:14) He decided to take "god-hood" upon himself.

But there are several differences between Lucifer and man. First of all, man has two different states. Presently he is "out of dust". (Gen2:7) In this state he was deceived into sin. In sin we are "of satan as father" (Jn8:44) and do the things he does. He is a liar, and we lie, and engage in "violence" (Ez28:16), etc. Where Lucifer sought to "be like the Most High" he enticed Eve with, "you shall be as God". (Gen3:5) And indeed, this rebellion of man has evolved to where today he openly suggests that 'man is god'. He is ruler of his own destiny. He is the author and finisher of his own evolution. [Ed: even though he still can't cure cancer, old age, weather, volcanoes, earthquakes, killer bees, etc.]

When we become Christians, the Holy Spirit comes in to dwell. (Rom8:9) But we are still in these bodies of "flesh and blood" which are not capable of being in Heaven. (1Cor15:50) They are bodies of corruption. While we are Christians, there is still a struggle between the flesh and the spirit. (Rom7) Our salvation is not yet complete. The Holy Spirit "seals" us as the "earnest" of our inheritance. (Eph1:13-14) The "earnest" is the legal -promise- of God, that He -will- give it. But the fact that it is an "inheritance" means we don't yet have full possession. As "flesh and blood" we are not 'fit' to possess it.

God has given us "minds" by which to order our lives. When we are saved Paul exhorts that we should "renew" our minds. (Rom12:2) When we are having the spirit/flesh struggles, the warring goes on in our "minds". (Rom7:23) One of the reasons Paul exhorts people NOT TO engage in the so-call "charismatic gifts" is because the "mind is unfruitful" (1Cor14:14) The mind is put into "neutral" creating an "empty house", and thus, the 'filling' that happens is from demonic spirits. (Mt12:43-45) When the Holy Spirit indwells He does not "take over" like demons do. For some reason God has still given us autonomy of ourselves through our minds. The "spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." (1Cor14:32) Thus, we can also "insult the Spirit of grace" (Heb10:29) and kick Him out, burning the Will document and spitting on that Inheritance.

But when we receive the inheritance (still in the future) we are "changed". (1Cor15:51) We are converted from flesh into spiritual bodies. (15:44) Our bodies are "heavenly" bodies. (15:40) We become "like" Jesus (1Jn3:2); whatever that is. If the new heavens and new earth are characterized by the fact that "the former things shall not be remembered or come to mind" (Is65:17 nkjv), does this mean that our minds are also "changed"? If we are promised that we become "like" Jesus, apparently we will be receiving something Lucifer could only dream of. We are told that "we shall ever be with the Lord". (1Th4:17b)

So...if Lucifer 'jumped ship' FROM HEAVEN and God's presence, why would we NOT do so? As awesome as this may be to imagine, we will not be so "low" (comparatively) as angels are. Remember, we will be "like" Christ. "To which of the angels did [God] ever say, "You are My Son..?" (Heb1:5) As Believers we are "sons of God". (Rom8:14, Gal3:26) Angels are -our- "ministering spirits". (Heb1:14) Notice that it says nothing about us 'commanding' or 'ordering' the angels. We are yet in the flesh. But when the time comes Paul says that we will also "judge angels". (1Cor6:3)

No, we will not 'jump ship' from Heaven, because we will be "like Him" and we will be in "incorruption" in our new spiritual/heavenly bodies. Remember how God set up the cherubim to "guard the way to the tree of life" at Eden (Gen3:24), so that sinful flesh could not access it. Once the Believer is glorified, he will have access to that tree. (Rev22:14) The earthly man will desire the "earthy" (1Cor15:47), and will usually not want to wait for the heavenly. But the one who abides in hope of the inheritance (Eph1:18) will then "also bear the image of the heavenly" (1Cor15:49)


You had mentioned the following "One of the reasons Paul exhorts people NOT TO engage in the so-call "charismatic gifts" is because the "mind is unfruitful" (1Cor14:14) The mind is put into "neutral" creating an "empty house", and thus, the 'filling' that happens is from demonic spirits. (Mt12:43-45)

I have a few doubts about this sentence. firstly you have mentioned that "demonic spirits can fill in our minds". But do this mean that demonic spirits can stay in our body? or they only come to our minds? If they can reside in us then, as we are the temple of living God, and Holy Spirit living in us, how is it possible for Holy Spirit and Demonic Sprit co-exist in us?

Aaah! Words. Choice of words. One thing that makes writing these studies take so long, sometimes, is 'words'. How to say something 'just right'. And since I am not a writer, nor been gifted in words, it takes me longer sometimes. But in this case I see the Holy Spirit, again, made sure the wrong words did NOT get used.

Please notice that you quote from the Q/A "..Paul exhorts -PEOPLE-.." And your question words it "demonic spirits can fill -OUR- minds" and "..stay in -OUR- body.."

Now, if you would please, go back up to the first Q/A on "God told us". Notice the sentence that says, "charismania is NOT 'Christian'." That it is a "different" spirit.

The demonic spirits do not fill "OUR" (Christians) minds. Yes, I have received many e-mails in the past from people retaliating something like, "I'm a born-again, blood-washed Christian, and I speak in tongues." And the stuff surrounding their comment presents an attitude of Hmph!! So there!! What are you going to say to THAT???!!! ...in anger! That... just because they -say- they are a "Christian" must mean it is so, and "how dare" anybody question it?!?

So, let us say it again. Yes... some of you are going to get angry again, and some of you will unsubscribe. Be that as it may....

Here it is...

If you speak in tongues (babble unintelligibly), thus being like the "mediums and wizards that peep (chirp) and mutter (moan, growl, groan, roar, utter...IOW making various vocal sounds)" (Is8:19); and/or become overcome with spirits that throw you around, -forcing- you to act 'immodestly', and make you 'slain' on the floor, like the demon-possessed who were brought to Jesus... if you are doing these things -FOR-REAL- and not merely pretending in order to 'blend in'... you are NOT a Christian. Period.

If you think you are, you are deceived. Please remember that "going forward" does NOT save you. ...no matter how many times you did it... And salvation does not come from somebody praying over you and waving their hand, and a "presence" coming over you and giving you a tingly feeling. That is witchcraft, shamanism and is of satan. True salvation comes from "repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." (Acts20:21) If all you're looking for is to "be blessed" and "feel good", you didn't get saved; you're NOT saved. The heart and spirit of true salvation comes from being "afflicted and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to heaviness. Be humbled before the Lord, and HE will lift you up." (Jas4:9-10) This is the definition of true repentance. This comes about because you realize that -you- are a sinner and along with "all" the rest of humanity, -you- "..come short of the glory of God." (Rom3:23)

So, back to the present question: "how is it possible for the Holy Spirit and demonic spirits to co-exist in the Believer?" IT ISN'T.

"..do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit in you, Whom you have of God?" (1Cor6:19) "..no one is able to serve two lords..." (Mt6:24)

"..and may your whole SPIRIT and SOUL and BODY be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1Th5:23)



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