• Fire of God
• Trinity United
• Trinity addendum - May 2,2004
• Abortion

Q.
I agree about what you have said, but I don't agree with what I think you are implying. I understand that you imply that the 'move of God' that is happening around the world right now is actually a move of Satan. Maybe you aren't implying this, but in either case, I just want to make a few comments.

1) Satan is not stupid. He would not encourage people worldwide into a deeper relationship with God. This is what I have been seeing through God moving in my church, city and nation.

A.
Oh, of course he would! Well...that's what he CALLS it. But it is not the real thing. And, sorry to disagree with you, but NO, we have NOT been seeing it moving in the nation. What we are seeing is a counterfeit. What we are seeing is just as prophesied, "the [Holy] Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons..."(1Tm4:1~) See also 2Tm3:1-7, Jude1-19.

Here at VW we not only "imply" this, but we speak of it [directly] often...just as Paul warned [them] "night and day with tears.."(Acts20:31)

Q.
2) Fire can be from God. What about 1 Kings 18: "The God who answers with fire, He is the true God"?

A.
Yes. It CAN be.

Q.
3) Fire is spoken of throughout the Bible also as the thing that refines gold and silver, the implication being that we will be refined with fire until we are pure. To me that means that God WILL come with fire.

A.
Are we confused? What is claimed to be a "move" of God is not a "purifying fire." There are no "trials and persecution" going on, as people speak of it. There is, however, a lot of demonic activity, stirring up emotions, and making people "feel" good.

Yes; through the centuries there have been persecutions of the Church, as Satan has sought to annihilate Her, as Jesus promised. (Jn16:33) And it has served to "test" the works "of what sort it is."(1Cor3:13)

However, the "purifying" the Word speaks of is for Israel, "the sons of Levi."(Mal3:3) Israel will be going through the time of God's Wrath. But the Church will not. (So much has been written on this, I will not repeat it here. I would refer the reader to the recent "Saved.13" installment: "Salvation: Provisions: Future" as well as the Topic Search with words "rapture, pre-trib, wrath")

The True Church has ALREADY been purified. "You are a holy generation."(1Pt2:9) "Those who are called, [&] sanctified.."(Jude1) "To Him who...washed us from our sins in His own blood"(Rev1:5) "..he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."(Heb10:14) And there are MANY, MANY other such verses.

When it comes right down to it, those who claim that "God is purifying His Church" (present/future tense) are actually claiming that Jesus' work on the cross was not sufficient. That He did an imperfect job. When He cried, "It is finished" (Jn19:30) ...He lied. But he did not lie!

Those who say these things are [liars]. And who is the "father of.." lies? (Jn8:44)

Comment:
Amen, brother! It's extremely important that Jesus warned us to beware of false prophets three times in Matt. 24. You're right on! Whether it be people swept up by emotion or sightings of the "blessed virgin," it's child's play for the 2nd most intelligent being in the universe!

Can't wait for the wedding feast to get out of this mess! Will wait in faith, like Paul, however!

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Q.
Recently I have been reading all I can get my hands on about the "Trinity". Will you please do an article soon on this subject so I can read your thoughts on the subject.

Seems the more I read, the more confused I become. In reading this mornings article "Saved", it seems to be that your thoughts are not that God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are one. If you have already touched on this in past articles, will you please send me a copy. I may have missed it while on vacation.

Keep up the great service you are providing.

A.
Essentially...God is one.(Deut6:4) Jesus said, "I and My Father are one."(Jn10:30) And in His prayer, Jesus says, "that they may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You;"(17:21)

But this "unity" is split up between several "persons." In Gen 1:1-2 it says "God created" and "the Spirit of God was hovering." In Jn1:3, we are told that the "Word" (Jesus) was also there "in the beginning."

But the plurality comes out when God says, "let US make man in OUR image." God "singular" speaking that the God "plural" would accomplish it. OK...I'm sure this confused you. I'm not sure I fully understand it, either.

God gave us an earthly example of this union. Marriage. Paul discusses it in Eph5:22-33. And he goes back to Genesis and quotes, "the two shall become one flesh." (vs31) And in 1Cor6:16 he speaks of why immorality is wrong (among other things) because sexual impurity is a sin against one's own flesh..."the two, shall become one flesh."

This is one reason why immorality is so prevalent. Satan's perversion of God's example of His own essence. When everybody sleeps around so much that nobody is tied to anybody...society doesn't understand this union.

Forget the examples that some may have tried to use...the "three stranded rope" ...or the egg ...shell/white/yolk. Not the same thing.

I'm probably not doing a very good job of explaining here. The part that I understand about it is beyond the realm of mere words. But, I don't feel I fully understand it yet. And we probably won't until we are with Him. John writes, "it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."(1Jn3:2) I expect part of that seeing Him "as He is" may included some of that "oneness" of the Trinity. ...? Now we see dimly..but then "face to face...then I shall know just as I also am known."(1Cor13:12)

TRINITY ADDENDUM:

READER QUESTION:
have always believed this doctrine and always been told anyone who does not believe in this is a sign they are a false religion , but sometimes concerned that it originates from the RC(Anthanasian) creed, and also the fact that if it originates from Genesis how come the Jews never believed it.?.... I once read an explanation for children-comparing the "Trinity"for simplicity's sake, to water which can be liquid steam or ice...but why would Jesus call out from the cross"My God why have you forsaken me"?Now I know you have some articles on this very difficult subject but please bear with me as I quote to you what I read(he is Chrstian I think!) and when you have time could you give me your opinion?I do not want to spend time on controversies, but this doctrine has always been difficult to us all, and the following also does not in my view present the most clear picture either but it is a confusing subject! Thankyou

[VW: Article too long to include here :VW]

VW ANSWER:
Like this person asks 'why' people look to -men's- arguments.....I always wonder why, when people are refuting certain pet doctrines they like to harp on, they argue the doctrines of Rome....like he does.

When they use the "Jews" argument, they are drawing from -unbelieving- Jews.

Yes, God is 'One' (as the Jews believe De6:4)....but He also said that he was sending "My Angel" (Ex23:23), which we have observed fairly recently (I think?) that this O.T. "Angel of Jehovah" was, in fact, Jesus. Paul speaks of how "Christ" was with Israel in the wilderness. (1Co10:4) And David prays -to-God- "...take not Your Holy Spirit from me..." (Ps51:11) The fact that there is a certain 'distinguishing' of 'entities' within the Godhead is obvious....otherwise God would have said, ' I will send Myself to lead you (Israel in the wilderness)' ....or David would have prayed 'Don't take Yourself away from me' A bit 'silly', doesn't it seem like?

Regarding prayer Paul says that the "Spirit Himself" makes intercession (Rom8:26) Intercession with whom? Well, our prayer is to the "Father" (Eph3:14) So is God interceding to Himself on our behalf? "He who searches the hearts" (Rom8:27) is none other than Jesus the "Word" (Heb4:12-13) Jesus, Himself, commands that immersion be in the name of the "Father, Son and Holy spirit" (Mt28:19) Ga4:6 also has the interaction of the 'three' regarding the Believer.

As for the O.T. believing Jews, this from Isaiah, -Jesus- speaking prophetically: "From the time it existed, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent Me." (Is48:16b) He does not say, "I and I have sent Me". God does not stutter! His Word says exactly what He intends.

But....what is the "One"? ....what is the "three"? If we look at ourselves in our own essence, where is the distinction between soul and spirit? We know from Scripture that the soul is in the blood. (Lev17:11) But what -is- "soul"? Can we grab the soul, hold it in our hands and look at it and say...."look at this soul"? What about our spirits? That is even more elusive. (Jn3:8) The fact that Scripture specifies that it is Jesus who knows this (Heb4:12) is to suggest that this is presently beyond our earthly comprehension. "Such knowledge is incomprehensible to me; it is high, I am not able to reach it." (Ps139:6)

Now, if we cannot even understand ourselves....how can we possibly expect to fully understand God's essence...at this time?

"For now we see through a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall fully know just as I also am fully known." (1Co13:12)

"Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is." (1Jn3:2)

Some things we see the various 'evidences' ... even though we may not fully understand them ... and accept them in faith, until they are revealed to us.

"...and if children, then heirs; heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory WHICH SHALL BE REVEALED UNTO US. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the REVEALING OF THE SONS OF GOD." (Rom8:17-19)

That's yet in the future... In the mean time it is always good to remember the words of the 'preacher'...

"He has made everything beautiful in its time; also He has set eternity in their hearts, so that no man can find out the work that God has made from the beginning to the end." (Ec3:11)

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Q.
Why not discuss birth control methods! the iud, big abortifacent! Norplant same thing, i think you are on a good course, please continue! I receive natural family planning info even though i am a single, because i don't think Christians even think about what they are doing to their own bodies with many forms of birth control, they cause abortions in themselves! Just my 2 cents,

A.
Good points. I thought about them when writing the commentary. But that was not the primary thrust of it. But, perhaps your note here will be a good launching point for a Q/A on the matter...

OK...here we go. And here are, now, "my 2 cents." I don't even want to touch on the subject of "contraception." I think it could likely fit Paul's catagory of "let each be persuaded in his own mind."(Rom14:5)

However, if a couple decides to practise contraception, I believe it is PARAMOUNT that their method in NO WAY resembles the "morning after" provisions. By that point the zygote could well have been formed. The zygote is a living PERSON. But the methods that keep the sperm from joining the egg likely are OK. Millions of sperm die before one makes contact. And many eggs are discarded during the course of a lifetime. But when they do join, "the two become one [flesh]" even in this sense.

Q.
There are very few things that you write that I disagree with. Infact none until yesterday's article on abortion.

And it really isn't disagreement. It is just a different belief of facts. Then this morning in your article on saved you made a statement that kinda confirms how I feel.

You said in this morning's article (Saved.13) that a person inherits sin at birth. We all understand that. But an aborted child is never born...so it could not inherit sin no matter what state the mother's spiritual condition is in. Could it?

A.
Do you recall Saved.7 "Condition at Birth"..? We saw from Ps51:5 that sin is inherited "at conception." Reference to "birth" in Saved.13 was comparing the "Spiritual" birth vs "Physical" birth. But birth starts with conception. #13 is talking about "bodies." The "transformation" of the body which is yet "future." And was simply referencing "birth" to dilineate "spiritual" vs "physical." But Ps51:5 is quite clear that it starts at "conception."

"Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them." (Ps139:16)

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